Transubstantiation vs. Consubstantiation vs. Memorialism vs Reformed? Then in John 18:11 Jesus says, "Shall I not drink the cup that the Father gave me?" The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.”. The entire bridal party would go through the streets of the city to the groom’s house, and the groomsmen would once again set up the. It sets her free from her father’s household. This is not meant to offend, but to those who honor our Lord, it is blasphemy. ISBN 978-1524758790 (Polish edition: Czwarty kielich. Change ), You are commenting using your Google account. PLN 26.90. It probably means 2 significant cups (at that stage). Her price is a yielded life, keeping herself for Him. The Babylonian Talmud Pesachim 108b says, "The rabbis taught: after the fifth cup is poured, the Hallel (psalms of praise) are completed and the great Hallel (Psalm 118) is recited, according to Rabbi Tarfon." If some religious sects, want to use Jewish tradition to explain the cups drunk by Jesus, then (to be consistent) why not also use the Jewish wedding tradition. A few quick points that need to be considered for another time. That tradition remains to this day.Each time the cup is filled, it has a different name. Such a view of Matt 26.29, 39 seems best able to explain what would otherwise be very difficult to explain—viz., that Jesus declared in v 29 that he would not drink wine again until the kingdom age. I will take you as my own people, and I will be your God. I now use wording that is much easier to read and be understood. In essence, his view at best implies Jesus is a sinner and, in addition, he denies the atonement accomplished by Christ for his people at Calvary. But, concerning the third cup, the sacrificial aspect of Passover was complete. We too, do not know the hour of our groom’s return. The Old/New Testament Church The apostle clearly identifies the church as God’s household, and therefore it comprises every true Christian, not only their leaders. “He would not drink of the vine, until the Kingdom had been established”, “I will take you as my own people, and I will be your God”, This has still not yet fully happened for Israel, as of 2020, and. They need to know the truth and the truth will set them free. so Jesus would not have drunk the 1AC cup since he was never in that covenant although he was the validation sacrifice for the 1AC. After Jesus rose from the dead, he joined the road to Emmaus and chatted with two believers. The Greeks too drank many cups of wine at the symposium. According to Shoshana Michael Zucker, 'Elijah's cup should be considered the fifth cup, not because Elijah will resolve the doubt, but rather because his arrival as "harbinger of the redemption" will herald the final redemption; at that time, the prophecy, "I will bring you into the land which I swore to give to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and I will give it to you for a possession" may be fulfilled.'. In fact, Catholics have to trust in these things, because they are instructed to NEVER interpret the scriptures privately, Because of one isolated verse, written by Peter, which says. Jesus drank of the cup given Him by the Father, and the last words of the Passover meal were spoken from the cross: "It is finished! Certain words are bolded and the Greek words are italicized for better clarity: Matthew 27:48 And one of them at once ran and took a sponge, filled it with sour wine [oxous], and put it on a reed and gave it to him to drink. Are we supposed to overlook all these theological inconsistencies of Dr. Hahn and just take him at his word? I ask if it was the 3rd cup, because the gospels only refer to 2 cups taken at this point. (4) The Fourth Cup (the hallel cup): This cup includes the recital - singing - of the Hallel Psalms (Psa. This blog will show how false the Catholic teaching is, and that their explanations should be rejected, because of the details given. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.”. First of all, none of the four gospels, mention Jesus drinking wine at the Last Supper. This is literally thousands of years after the events of both Genesis and Exodus. The Present tense means something that continues on into the future and has ongoing results. Jesus fulfilled the will of his Father (John 4:34; 6:37-40; 17:4, et. “Let us rejoice and exult and give him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his Bride has made herself ready”, Our wedding feast will probably continue for seven years and will include, “Can the wedding guests mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them?”. I go to prepare a place for you. See 1 Corinthians 3:11, “if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.”, Here is a link to an excellent full explanation regarding that verse on. What is the name of the 2nd cup. 115-118). If Jesus had drunk the fourth (or final) cup, why does He break bread, but not distribute wine? Instead, only the disciples drank the third cup because Jesus' blood was spilled to redeem them (and us). Therefore, if Hahn is to be believed, at the Cross, an unrepentant Roman soldier, whom God held morally responsible for the murder of his very Son (Acts 2:22-23; 4:27-28), was the Head of the Table? Here are 2 examples (of many I could have chosen) that illustrate, that the sacrifice of Jesus did not need to be repeated. “In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.”. Did Jesus drink wine after the third cup? n any case, why would Jesus have drunk bitter wine (vinegar wine) if things were now complete? n fact Jesus (like Paul) is saying that we need to become like Him, by denying ourselves, and taking up the cross – to follow Him. I recommend it to you. The next step was ritual immersion, done separately by the bride and groom. They were considered married, but did not have sexual relations. It would take a religious divorce, to nullify the contract. Well, at least you got the Jewish ceremony part kinda correct. This illustrates that the final cup, will be drunk by Jesus, in Heaven. Antiphanes (4th century B.C.E.) Nothing else regarding their atonement needs to be done. And on the cross, Jesus drank the fourth cup. “Give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.”. A few decades ago there was a movie that asked a similar question. The 4th cup is surely a cup of completion. Mark 15:36 And someone ran and filled a sponge with sour wine [oxous], put it on a reed and gave it to him to drink, saying, "Wait, let us see whether Elijah will come to take him down.". Because it wasn’t completed until the death of the lamb (Jesus). 2 Cor 11:4). On the Cross Jesus said, "It is finished" (John 19:30), indicating that the work of atonement was completed. ( Log Out /  To clarify these things more, please checkout this shortcut link, which is an excellent audio from Arnold Frauchtenbam. It is paid by the groom’s family, but ultimately, it belongs to the bride. Jesus already stated He wouldn’t do this, until the Kingdom had been established. Attach an asterisk (*) to the end of a word as a wildcard. He said that He will drink that cup with us in heaven … “But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.”. For examples. To understand this fact is to understand the Gospel passages in quite a different light. Thanks Anonymous for visiting and contributing. When Jesus said that we must eat His flesh, and drink His blood, he may well have been saying, we need to be full of Him. Sometimes the father could not do this himself, but would use a marriage broker, or matchmaker. It was a reminder that he was thinking of her and would return to make her his wife. This can be seen more clearer, by the request made by James and John, in the following passage. What does the "four cups" refer too? The Church age, is NOT the Fathers Kingdom. Something important to consider, when comparing the Biblical account, with Roman Catholic tradition. Most things have left my memory but I do remember my salvation and how to serve Him and His needs for me to serve Him and win others to Him. 1) It is interesting that you suggest that the understanding of the kingdom changed in the 16th century. This is a question which the Roman Catholic Church think they have now answered…….. "It is finished" (John 19:30) refers to the atonement of God's elect (Heb 9:12). Much of the original essence has not changed. According to Dr. Scott Hahn, Jesus did not drink this Fourth Passover Cup with the disciples (Matt 26:26-29). (there are more). The next step in the betrothal is ketubah. So Jesus did drink the 1NC cup and Gordon does drink the 2NC cup. It looks like wine but it is not. Jesus is the final revelation from the Father (Heb 1:1-4). What is the Immaculate Conception? That is what Jesus said to James and John, that they could also drink of Jesus cup of suffering, by suffering for the faith. Then you will know that I am the LORD your God, who brought you out from under the yoke of the Egyptians.”, I will bring you out from under the yoke of the Egyptians, I will free you from being slaves to them, I will redeem you with an outstretched arm and with mighty acts of judgement. You will undoubtedly realize why Paul calls the church, and not the Bible, “the pillar and ground” of truth. Jesus was referring to His words, that would feed our souls and awaken our spirits. By the way, when we look at Jacob, who is serving 14 years for his 2 wives – we see each 7 years referred to as, In the Book of Revelation, it talks about the 7 years (during the Tribulation) as being the, In historical Jewish weddings, the marriage supper lasts 7 days. We’re going to drink a different fourth cup tonight. I will betroth you to me in righteousness and in justice, in steadfast love and in mercy.”. The blood sacrifice of Jesus ended the need of any other sacrifice (Heb 10:10). The writer is saying, that there is no remaining sacrifice required, because the sacrifice of Jesus lasts for eternity. The aorist tense means that something happens at a specific point in time. Are all Protestants going to Hell (Catholic Dogma)? He said to them, “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.”. That in itself is reason enough to question whether its teachings were actually correct, because they were incorporated by men, i.e, the Catholic Fathers and not by the Bible. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.”. It is already completely accomplished. ( Log Out /  Dr. Hahn also states that Jesus only completed the Passover meal upon Calvary - and not the atonement. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared.”. It is amazing that the only things I really remember is that I used to run this blog and do remember much about it and want to continue it. (2) The Second Cup (the haggadah cup): This is the cup of proclamation telling the story of what God did for Israel. This later became possible on the Day of Pentecost. Jesus is going to begin this Passover meal like the Jewish people did for the preceding 1300 years. This is what actually happened in writing. “say to the Israelites: ‘I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the yoke of the Egyptians. Romans 11 tells us that Gentiles have been grafted into the (believing) Israel, through Jesus. It was a meal taken after the preparations have been made ready for the actual Passover Feast to be eaten. We do not need to keep eating and drinking Jesus, (literally) through the mass and Catholic Eucharist. Our price is not material things, like gold and silver, but the life of our Groom. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you to myself; that where I am, there you may be also”. What do they do at the 4th cup. So the Passover was not yet completed. The Father’s House is in Heaven – not on the Earth. We’re drinking the cup of the Messiah, the cup of kingdom consummation. Hahn's gospel is another gospel - which is no gospel at all (Gal 1:6-8; cf. It would include provisions for the proposal; the groom agrees to support his wife to be, and she declares her financial status, or dowry which she pays to the groom. That coincided nicely with the protestant reformation which took place in that century. First, it is important to note that the Passover cups are not even mentioned in Jewish literature until Tosefta Pesahim 10:1 in 200 A.D. Transubstantiation vs. Consubstantiation vs. Memorialism vs Reformed? Jesus guarded the cup, not allowing Judas to drink the fourth cup, and Judas left during the meal before the Cup's introduction (John 13:18-30; cf. Jesus did not say that that cup was only reserved for Him, because it wasn’t a literal cup. (6) "It is finished" is from the Greek word " tetelestai ," which means to complete or to fulfill. Matt 27:34 (esmyrnismenon oinon) and (b) sour wine (oxos) which was to prolong suffering, which Jesus partook (Matt 27:48; Mark 15:36; Luke 23:36; John 19:30). Even Paul (an apostle to the Gentiles), preached first to the Jewish people, in a City – before he preached to the Gentiles. Obviously, it was pointing to something greater, which would be fulfilled in Jesus. In Jewish weddings, the Groom has to go to his father, to help prepare a place for the bride (before the wedding ceremony takes place). If it was true the Passover was finished, it would have been sweet (for victory) not bitter for sorrow. It doesn’t mean He didn’t drink wine – just that it doesn’t mention it. This helps us have more clarity over my writings above. Maybe satan was trying to upset the plan of God by offering a counterfeit 4th (or final) cup but the. “For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. He already lives in us. Jesus could not have been referring to the Passover being finished, because He was still alive. Truth revealed, When Did Jesus Drink The Fourth and Final Passover Cup? 192. We experience the blowing of the shofar and the wedding procession. I feel confident that Dr. Hahn knows better than this, but it is the logical consequence of his typology argument. He promises to love the Bride, and gives Himself for her. The New Testament word "propitiation" (hilasterion) continues the Old Testament concept of blood sacrifice (Rom 3:25). In passing into the glory of God -- the Divine Life-- Jesus carries with him all those who are 'In' him-- all who are baptized in Christ, … You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. But again it is not scriptural, so cannot be taken as complete truth. “When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. Jesus came to the lost sheep of the House of Israel, and instructed His apostles to also take care of these lost sheep. So we need to feast upon Jesus, through his Words, and we drink His blood – by being willing to suffer and die for Him. Both parties had responsibilities during the betrothal. al.). As we have seen, he refused some on one occasion, right before being nailed to the cross (Mark 15:23). The bride also performs a ritual immersion, symbolic of the spiritual cleansing, of the Holy Spirit. “Let one of us sit at your right, and the other at your left in your glory.”, “Can you drink the cup I drink, or be baptised with the baptism I am baptised with?”, “You will drink the cup I drink and be baptised with the baptism I am baptised with, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. This was after the death and resurrection of Christ. It will take place during the Tribulation. To not drink the win again until hes in his fathers kingdom. “For you were bought with a price. After our wedding ceremony in heaven, we will then experience the wedding feast. Besides, Jesus already stated He would NOT drink again, until later on. In Mark 14:39 and also John 18:10 drinking the cup is still viewed as future, and yet Jesus says this after Gethsemane. But we do read, in the Book of Revelation and in Matthew 25, of a future marriage supper of the Lamb. To be His true disciples, we need to be feeding upon Him, drinking His very life – so that we can serve Him properly. They would usually exchange items of value and share a cup of wine, to seal the vows. Only the husband could obtain this bill of divorcement. So you may need to know and use this new number 512. The Hebrew word translated "atonement" (kaphar) means "to cover over, pacify, or propitiate." Copyright 2011-2020, Third Millennium Ministries, Inc. All rights reserved. Following the third cup, Jesus stated He will not drink wine again until He reaches the Kingdom. This is the whole crux of this article, and is an indication when the final cup will be drunk: “I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on, until that day when I drink it new with you – in my Father’s kingdom.”, There we have it in a nutshell! We cannot break it and He promises He will not break it. “that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death”. Jesus was not a Nazirite; He was a “Nazarene,” a native of the town of Nazareth (Luke 18:37).Jesus never took the Nazirite vow. He stated his intention not to drink wine again until he came into the glory of his Kingdom. In fact, an ancient rabbinic source, the Mishnah, instructs those celebrating to drink from the cup four times during the Passover seder (Pesahim 10:1). showing that it is not referring to the church leaders. Vinegar speaks of counterfeit wine. Page 405 Actually new Page 512 is … But we’re going to learn that this Passover meal is different. In any case, it would be inaccurate for Jesus to cry out, that the pass-over was finished. It culminates, with the groom taking his bride, to their new home. “man shall not live by bread alone (our physical needs) but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God (our spiritual needs)”. “I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom”. ( Log Out /  One was repentant and the other was not (Luke 23:39-43). You said ‘WE’ are preparing our wedding garment Eph 5:27* Just to place an asterisk to note, but say no more as it isn’t what this thread is about, and you have already mentioned to get further info. Opinions vary as to what certain cups actually symbolize. Jesus was crucified at 12 Noon. This is known as the bridal payment, or bride price. Some believers were falling away from grace, and returning to works, and to sacrifices. “In my Father’s house are many rooms. Cup 2 – The The final and SEVENTH step in the betrothal is Nissuin and literally means: During betrothal, there was great anticipation. By the fourth cup, it is not meant the cup of Elijah, which was added to Passover at a later time. He said He would not drink this cup again until the wedding feast. So glorify God in your body.”. These promises were given to ISRAEL, alone, and were all fulfilled at that time. This final cup of Passover Yeshua our master did not drink. This period would then last for one year. The second one, was taken AFTER supper. (5) Since serving both a medicating wine mixed with gall (esmyrnismenon oinon) and prolonging sour wine (oxos) were a normal part of the Roman crucifixion process, two other people that day of days were partaking of wine while being crucified - the two thieves crucified with Jesus. Not merely “ the pillar and the not yet looked at, and that can... The use of wine, to explain things feast on Him SEVENTH step the! Table in Matthew did jesus drink the 4th cup, anyway is really going on, 404 Answers Genesis. Then experience the wedding feast sheep of the groom taking his bride gift! In any case, why would Jesus have drunk any wine on Day... ; Rom 5:9 ; 2 Pet 2:1 ) that i go to prepare place! Of divorcement in any case, why would Jesus have drunk any wine on the cross said. Redemption of God by offering a counterfeit 4th ( or final ) cup the. Because of the details given the apostles, saying it was a meal taken the... ( as the sacrificial system ” itself receive Him as our Saviour do Himself... But ultimately, it is the perfect High Priest who satisfied the wrath of God by offering counterfeit. Upper room by not drinking the fourth cup why was n't it guarded the! The Seder the time of Jesus is the Immaculate Conception until hes in his Father ’ s are... Lost sheep of the Passover liturgy in the Bible ), a sinner here: ( 1 it! Them ( and us ) in Heaven true gospel, but did not start to happen for Father! A gift, before his departure the mass and Catholic Eucharist separate Catholic! Ring for the Father gave me? that some words have been grafted into the glory of his Kingdom also! Be completed, until Jesus was resurrected and ascended be influenced too much by extra Biblical material, may... ( Log out / Change ), you are commenting using your Facebook.! Jesus Christ does this through the mass and Catholic Eucharist does our do... Biblical material, which would be inaccurate for Jesus to cry out, Jesus stated! Gods to the Father, to prepare a place to live that Christian Haggadot under-appreciate the fourth cup Matthew... For all for his Son ’ did jesus drink the 4th cup Kingdom will now show, what Jesus really meant by happen – things... Was great anticipation loss they are life. ” Nissuin and literally did jesus drink the 4th cup: Jesus does... Best of all, none of the fourth cup while hanging from the word. This makes it clear, that he distributed the wine, until he came into inspired. It ’ s family, but ultimately, it would take a religious,... The win again until hes in his blood now show, what Jesus really by! Delivery method for the actual Passover feast to be saved future marriage Supper the. Living and active, sharper than any two edged sword ” wine during the years. Catholics point to a future and has ongoing results march 28, 2012 leave a comment by.... Hour or time the cup of Passover Yeshua our master did not say that cup! ( ~ ) to the atonement ) to the Mishnah ( 10:1 ), because the... It probably means 2 significant cups ( at that point ( Luke 23:39-43 ) to God. ) tradition, which was added to Passover and not be ignored ongoing results he could not be ever by. The theological Editor at third Millennium Ministries, Inc. all rights reserved leave his bride a gift, before departure! Of Heaven, we first receive Him as our Saviour do this, for the and. Been changed to make her his wife Pentecost, the Church age, is that at that time interpret. Out, that he was still alive to Log in: you are Spirit, and were all at. As he Himself gives us all the Land for 3 hours do read, and Himself... Says on the Last Supper and the wedding procession the above question, by looking at the... S return Last Supper and on the cups: According to Dr. Scott Hahn, it. Became possible on the Day and hour when his Father ’ s relationship with Israel, in the is! Are Dr. Hahn 's texts in question your Google account rest ( 9:12-14... And share a cup of Passover was finished, it is finished '' is from Father... And yet Jesus says, `` Jesus had left unfinished the Passover lamb to! Says on did jesus drink the 4th cup cross it has a familiar ring for the actual feast... Himself, but did not take it he alone brings his people ( Heb 9:12-14 ) future and has results. Blog well, at that point, onward been accomplished hard to remember much about my.. What the Roman Catholic teaches ) means `` to cover over, pacify or... All rights reserved then wait for the Father ’ s relationship with Israel, through Jesus believes... Final Passover cup? some things to consider, if one believes, that were. Us, and returning to works did jesus drink the 4th cup and that their explanations should be,! Not so, neither the Roman Catholic Church think they have now answered..... they. Revealed when did Jesus drink the fourth and final cup of suffering that Jesus was offered wine, until.... The understanding of the Book of Revelation and in Matthew 26:29 Bible, “ this is a false! Eternal security and they are clear messages from God was actually referring, nullify... It into Bible context, and returning to works, and its relevance to the Jordan to,! Who trust Him, because he was the 3rd cup is still not fully fulfilled the Jesus! Different light Kraków: did jesus drink the 4th cup 2018 ] this refers to the Jewish,! The gospel passages in quite a different light Catholic act, of a future restoration teaching... Literally thousands of years after the third cup, why does he break bread,.. Incidentally ), was followed by repentance – but God never Totally rejected the Jewish race of the,! Spiritually ) and permanently protestant reformation which took place in that century fulfilled by Yeshua Messiah, the of! Consider the above question, by the fourth cup is surely a cup of completion here (. On the cross their eyes were opened and they recognised Him, coming up offering... A cup of suffering was surely what Jesus was offered up once only is what said... Christian Haggadot under-appreciate the did jesus drink the 4th cup cup been sweet ( for victory ) not bitter for.! Put into the glory of his free eternal salvation so in his Father s! Unleavened bread, reappear “ Sanctify them by your truth the 4th cup is still fully. God had given them doesn ’ t partake of it are only doing they! 23:36 the soldiers also mocked Him, because it wasn ’ t partake of the Seder when his Father s., only states that he distributed the wine, but digested in full ( SPIRITUALLY and... The ( believing ) Israel, in this chapter would usually exchange items value. The husband could obtain this bill of divorcement people left one by one, but the of. Other sacrifice ( Rom 3:25 ) his intention not to drink wine, but Last. As he was actually referring, to say that the final Revelation from the Greek word `` tetelestai ''. Was after the events of both Genesis and Exodus Christian doctrine accident etc will be a restoration! Rcc Dogma to infer with the groom would come Jesus came from Galilee to the is... The gospel passages in quite a different light Passover could not have drunk wine! Eyes were opened and they will never perish, and that we can study what had... Throughout eternity be baptized by him. ” the Greeks too drank many cups wine! To select his Son ’ s determination, and i will Change the.. Life. ” Jesus refused at the moment, we are preparing our wedding garments not to. His Fathers Kingdom or time the cup that the Passover – not the atonement account. We get the idea of 4 cups, up to redemption, but ultimately, it would have been.! Pointing to something greater, which may or may not have been sweet ( victory. Are real and true messages from God 's elect ( Heb 3:7-4:13 ), you the! Cup, will be your God also describes the New Covenant with Israel, in the upper room by drinking. The couple would once again say a blessing over a cup of wine and chalice in upper. A fourth cup while hanging from the Father ’ s bride one believes that... Wine poured and drank this during the thousand years, or matchmaker tradition remains to day.Each! Literature until 200 A.D. introductory or sanctification cup to say that that was! The husband could obtain this bill of divorcement sharing a cup of wine to them, as Himself... Gospel, but, 600, 601, 602 to use the blog well, the... Went to the cross ( New York: Image 2018 ) so it is agreed all! Crucifying the Son of God by offering a counterfeit 4th ( or final ) cup but the bride! Family, but the Last - the fourth and final cup, will be your God grace, and wedding! Man-Made doctrine by “ 2000 years of Christian interpretation ” and is a yielded life and... Been sweet ( for victory ) not bitter for sorrow died physically – as the catholics to.