The big4 are honestly the major drivers, when you look at their profitability and scale. That’s about the top salary you can get as an electronics engineer. Do you have any articles that talk about this? So 5 years after high school you begin earning your salary of 50 thousand, and start working your way up. Press J to jump to the feed. Is test and QA really looked down upon like this? Got any idea how to land one of those gigs in the Middle East? Demand is far too high. Yeah there are accountants, rig hands, drivers, mechanical engineers, etc, but only geologist and petroleum engineers actually make the company money by locating and extracting oil and natural gas. New York? There are many smaller players that pay competitively with them but those companies for the most part do not hire thousands of engineers per year. My co-ops so far have been roughly minimum wage. This kind of attitude makes waves in our non-engineering peers who do not experience the same stress, leaving an impression that engineering students are such whiners. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. San Francisco? backing that though is the margins on the software being made. You guys have a good day. Every company has some sort of web presence whether through their public website or mobile apps. Yet, less than 1% of the workforce are driving it. My team of 4 people can directly attribute a $50 Million increase in profits to the company we work for, without the need to hire a whole bunch of sales or support staft - just us. Senior software engineers at Google make an average total compensation of $210,000. Jun 8, … Dave Smith. A subreddit for those with questions about working in the tech industry or in a computer-science-related job. Because of this, we can create very large margins! However the average salary for an engineer in the US is about $89,000 per year, which is about £63,000 GBP. The average salary for the UK? supply and demand. Medical doctor - 4 years of Undergrad 4 years of Medical school. * well, it's not virtuous if you're trying to afford rent there and you're not a techie, By concentrating most of the world’s development activities in a tiny spot, this doesnt really answer why activity was so concentrated... if you dig through the history of silicon valley you will find its success an outgrowth of post world war ii economic boom and gov research, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Valley#History_(before_1970s), silicon valley: the birthplace of modern corporate welfare. Having worked both directly with and downstream from developers in India, I can tell you that it is not easy working with another team on the other side the planet with a very different culture, customs and expectations. I didn’t negotiate my base salary. From examples I've heard before, it sounded like dev jobs in the Middle East paid well, but not noticeably better than the US. End rant. Exactly. But why are they few? Being a (good) software engineer takes a better-than-average brain. I did, however, negotiate my four-year initial stock grant from $150,000 to $190,000. Software engineer is only good for the lucky ones who graduated in the past 7 years and if they got a job at highly paying companies like Google or Facebook. And I think there are far fewer civil/environmental engineers that software/CS so why such a large discrepancy in salary? The average starting salary in my highly-educated industry is 30-35k. Another way to look at it is this. So my suggestion to all computer science majors is to focus on creating personal projects and landing an internship. Do you think I see anything but the tiniest sliver of that? The people working at VC funded jobs are probably very intelligent people working on what investors believe can make them a lot of money one day. as for internships, theyre more of a 3 month long interview. Outsourcing the work results in serious communication issues, intellectual property concerns, and a whole host of other issues. I'm honestly very happy for them but just can't wrap my head around why software companies are willing to pay so much for interns. "Your worldwide income is subject to U.S. income tax, regardless of where you reside." Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. And chances are that those interns may have fresher skills & knowledge on the nitty-gritty detailed topics than some of your more seasoned developers who are focusing on bigger-picture ideas. a doctor's office had a website (already amazing) which included an email address, nobody actually checked that inbox for weeks. Not even being sarcastic. $50/hr is cheap if each software engineer is charging $200/hr for their services. Short version: it pays to code. From what I've seen on this sub, intern money has gotten big but not that big. American SWE get paid better because American tech companies are making a shit ton of money. I'm in environmental engineering and don't earn nearly as much as my friends doing software engineering at my University. You should possess a great analytical skill for being considered for this position. If you're paying someone $100K to code instead of $50K to produce the same code, you'll more than make it up on the back end - and you might have gotten that same code quicker (because the developer who asked for $100K is better), which means you beat your competitors to market. It'll make life starting out much easier. You can't just look at salaries, otherwise you'll end up believing that one half of the population only makes 77 cents for every dolar the other half makes. While my friends in software have gotten jobs paying $30,$40 and even $50/hour with relocation and housing costs paid for. The reality is that the concentration of developer talent and VC money creates a virtuous cycle* of successful tech companies, which provides both the means and incentive for high salaries. Software engineers who make $500k a year do the same job as the rest of them. superficially its supply and demand, there are a lot more jobs than there are capable people. Outsourcing is tough because if you're working on a really difficult project and aren't able to sit down and talk with the other person easily (in the same room and without a language barrier) it makes it a lot difficult. As you can see, the 'selection' gets smaller and smaller. Then are are possibilities to earn much more. Other places like Canada and Europe simply don't have the pure-tech companies at that scale with such insane profitability. hiring someone that is not qualifed will decrease productivity for the existing engineers so its important to make sure theyre good. There's real competition amongst companies for those interns and they're using those internship programs as something of a farm system (not unlike minor league baseball) for future employees. when it was actually a relatively organic process that created the network effects. These jobs are very hard and there's a lot of pressure that comes with this type of position. The translates to around $50k a year. Yet there is still high demand for local developers. I mean you can't outsource the construction of a building or treatment of a waste water plant (my current job). In the Middle East they pay higher than the US, and have zero tax (as well as almost-free accomodation and other benefits), but the software work is pretty boring. And so, the salary gets higher and higher. Most of them are not in that lucky bucket. Dave Smith. I'm interested. For example, Google makes a net profit of about ~5 billion dollars PER QUARTER. Can't they outsource the work to talented engineers in India or China? White shirt, doing grunt work, not paid too much, too geeky to really matter in a business. And a lot of people also don’t realize that almost every single company (of any reasonable size) requires developers to run part of their tech. It’s almost gone. While my friends in software have gotten jobs paying $30,$40 and even $50/hour with relocation and housing costs paid for. The average Python developer salary in the UK is $51,774. Note: You can find this analysis updated for 2020 here.. Dev fell in love with code at a young age. Art by Judson Collier. Many of people I know who are in their 40s are not living that well despite they are software engineers. For a breakdown of the many factors that determine how a software engineer gets paid, take a look at the infographic below from Funders and Founders ' information designer Anna Vital. Bad CS students end up making much less than a bad civil engineering graduate, they get stuck in tech support or QA work. A subreddit for those with questions about working in the tech industry or in a computer-science-related job. Can't they outsource the work to talented engineers in India or China. Please don't be offended. Bad CS students end up making much less than a bad civil engineering graduate, they get stuck in tech support or QA work. I challenge the premise on two grounds: first, managers don’t have less work than engineers, it’s just a different kind of work; second, engineers don’t always get paid less. Some other jobs in the UK are paid too much, and also attract something called “status” which they should not attract. That means that, at $100,000 per year, you can afford up to $2,000 to $2,500 per month. This is an utterly backwards way of looking at it. "If you can't do, teach... if you can't code, test" type of thing? How to Win. Software Development is in huge demand for most companies, Finding people who can not only program, but are good programmers is hard, Finding people who can not only program, but are good programmers, and want to spend ~25% of their hours every week in front of a computer screen is hard. It has gotten to the point where engineers are seen as cogs as I can hire someone else to do the same thing, plus they are paid the least anyway so they are easy to replace. Almost every company needs software development services to some extent. 1/7 of the US economy is information tech, and the rest of the economy is becoming more and more dependent upon that. I hope they didnt work there for years while not paying US taxes. The way you talk about it, it sounds like a bunch of rich idiots just decided, "oh I know, let's force everyone to work here!" The average work week is also shorter, barely anyone I know cracks 40 hours, let alone the crazy 50 hour weeks some people here work. What is the best city in the world for a software engineer? Yes, some old researchers still do it, but Agile is not software engineering. Some engineering disciplines have starting salaries already at 100k (petroleum). I can't stand another day of diagnosing circuit problems. Even some internships expect a certain level of experience. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. First of all, 80k is what a <10 years engineer makes. Supply/Demand curve at work here. The US is usually seen as paying their engineers the most. However, the job became too stressful and Joe retired from his engineering career to become a stay-at-home dad/blogger at 38. 2016-06-08T14:46:03Z The letter F. An envelope. Outsourcing of software development has existed for quite a while now. I respect the software engineers and they definitely deserve the incomes they do receive. 9. Better-than-average as in 98% of the world population won't ever be a good software engineer, no matter how much time and effort they put in it, because they simply don't have the brains for it. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Even the ones who are getting their housing paid for are the exception, not the norm. Because software developers create value, environmental engineering is largely government related work and not value creation. That said, Americans still make a killing that us Europoors have a hard time wrapping our heads around, excepting perhaps the Swiss. Here's why programmers and software engineers get paid so much more than you. Many, many hours spent on conference calls with little to nothing to show for it. Yeah, this. I make $130,000, plus $47,500 in stock, for a total of $177,500 a year. I'm gonna get all A's while finishing my bachelor's degree. It's also thanks to the network effects - if everyone is accepting online payments and emails, it's easy to slot into this system. If I worked as a GP I could get paid as much as £104,000 a year. Something like 30% of CS students wash out of school (it's not easy) and there are always more jobs that need someone to program the code for. For such positions lot more than you internships to a minor league farming system is tough. Than in Germany and reaches 52,022 in India or China host of other.! Are Americans can resell a product to hundreds of miilions of people I know who are in their 40s not. All computer science majors is to focus on creating personal projects and landing an internship is outlier... Code at a premium scale with such insane profitability while now has existed for quite a while now the. 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