Almost better than every other place. White shirt, doing grunt work, not paid too much, too geeky to really matter in a business. A Bachelor degree is a must before applying for a Software Engineer position. Software engineers in Germany are paid $64,361. So, more experienced software engineers will be earning an annual income of R372,000 to R773,000 (with a comfortable median average of R561,000). But why are they few? Jun 8, … I mean you can't outsource the construction of a building or treatment of a waste water plant (my current job). I’ m a software engineer with three years of experience, working at Square, a public tech company in San Francisco. It'll make life starting out much easier. There are many smaller players that pay competitively with them but those companies for the most part do not hire thousands of engineers per year. San Francisco? Basically you get what you pay for (hopefully) in this field, and since developers are creating something, if they're good at it, they get paid a lot. A subreddit for those with questions about working in the tech industry or in a computer-science-related job. And so, the salary gets higher and higher. That's actually not that high. Yeah there are accountants, rig hands, drivers, mechanical engineers, etc, but only geologist and petroleum engineers actually make the company money by locating and extracting oil and natural gas. As everyone else... supply and demand. Software engineering is a smart career choice – it’s one of the most in-demand skills in the world and American software engineers earn a median salary of $112,000. So an MD doesnt start earning money until 11 to 15 years after high school. They just do it a bit more broadly, or a bit more deeply. Something like 30% of CS students wash out of school (it's not easy) and there are always more jobs that need someone to program the code for. And I think there are far fewer civil/environmental engineers that software/CS so why such a large discrepancy in salary? They expect you to have legitimate experience before you even start your first job. Also here sw engineering is seen as not so hard and "only sitting at your desk". I'm honestly just curious. Can't they outsource the work to talented engineers in India or China. You can easily outsource building construction, designs can be drawn up anywhere in the world as mathematics are a universal language. Some engineering disciplines have starting salaries already at 100k (petroleum). The average starting salary in my highly-educated industry is 30-35k. Developers are very plainly not engineers and can’t do engineering. "If you can't do, teach... if you can't code, test" type of thing? So my suggestion to all computer science majors is to focus on creating personal projects and landing an internship. for that reason companies are willing to pay near new hire wages to interns... making sure that the good candidates dont go to other companies. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Almost every company needs software development services to some extent. Yeah, this. Supply/Demand curve at work here. when it was actually a relatively organic process that created the network effects. If you have had no internships throughout your schooling for whatever reason you're at a real disadvantage. Then you have to consider that we're not entering the job force in debt and that the CoL is much lower here. As for software engineering, sorry, but software engineering as a research topic is history. you can resell a product to hundreds of miilions of people with little cost, all of the cost is in the upfront work. Some of the companies paying such high salaries haven't even turned a profit yet and are strictly running of VC money. because of that you can basically run billion dollar companies with a only a few hundred people on staff. Being a (good) software engineer takes a better-than-average brain. I challenge the premise on two grounds: first, managers don’t have less work than engineers, it’s just a different kind of work; second, engineers don’t always get paid less. Is this just a bubble? Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. How to Win. From examples I've heard before, it sounded like dev jobs in the Middle East paid well, but not noticeably better than the US. The average work week is also shorter, barely anyone I know cracks 40 hours, let alone the crazy 50 hour weeks some people here work. Do you have any articles that talk about this? Then are are possibilities to earn much more. Exactly. It has gotten to the point where engineers are seen as cogs as I can hire someone else to do the same thing, plus they are paid the least anyway so they are easy to replace. 1/7 of the US economy is information tech, and the rest of the economy is becoming more and more dependent upon that. My co-ops so far have been roughly minimum wage. They simply value tech more than we do here where everybody is hostile toward new things. It’s almost gone. I'm interested. Staying in North America for a similar job would pay $70-75k. Many of people I know who are in their 40s are not living that well despite they are software engineers. Outsourcing of software development has existed for quite a while now. Here's why programmers and software engineers get paid so much more than you. Software engineering salaries aren't high, considering the amount of value we create. For experienced engineers, base salaries (not including bonuses, benefits, perks) are more like 100-250k. Can't they outsource the work to talented engineers in India or China? Even some internships expect a certain level of experience. In Austria, the Python developer's salary is lower than in Germany and reaches 52,022. While my friends in software have gotten jobs paying $30,$40 and even $50/hour with relocation and housing costs paid for. However, the job became too stressful and Joe retired from his engineering career to become a stay-at-home dad/blogger at 38. The vice-president of the largest oil producer in my state told me that the reason petroleum engineers make so much money is the petroleum engineers make money for the company. Better-than-average as in 98% of the world population won't ever be a good software engineer, no matter how much time and effort they put in it, because they simply don't have the brains for it. The average salary for the UK? Bad CS students end up making much less than a bad civil engineering graduate, they get stuck in tech support or QA work. I’m an mid-career electronics engineer. This is an utterly backwards way of looking at it. Even the ones who are getting their housing paid for are the exception, not the norm. So 5 years after high school you begin earning your salary of 50 thousand, and start working your way up. The rest of the US is likewise influenced by this dynamic. The way you talk about it, it sounds like a bunch of rich idiots just decided, "oh I know, let's force everyone to work here!" For a breakdown of the many factors that determine how a software engineer gets paid, take a look at the infographic below from Funders and Founders ' information designer Anna Vital. The translates to around $50k a year. $50/hr is cheap if each software engineer is charging $200/hr for their services. backing that though is the margins on the software being made. Is test and QA really looked down upon like this? Here's why programmers and software engineers get paid so much more than you. Oh god please no, I already do tech work. Sound familiarity with various database systems is a must. That job title should die. American SWE get paid better because American tech companies are making a shit ton of money. They have experience that puts them at a premium. I can't stand another day of diagnosing circuit problems. In honor of National Engineers Week (Feb. 17-23), we’re looking at the reasons why engineers command top-tier compensation, and what recent graduates, as well as experienced engineers, can expect to earn. "Talented engineers in India" will cost almost as much as those interns, with the added difficulties of a language barrier and timezones. superficially its supply and demand, there are a lot more jobs than there are capable people. Please don't be offended. Short version: it pays to code. While my friends in software have gotten jobs paying $30,$40 and even $50/hour with relocation and housing costs paid for. Most of them are not in that lucky bucket. So companies see benefits of hiring local developers that outweigh the higher costs. The old hands: More experienced software engineers will start to see a higher hourly earnings rate, ranging from just under R150 on the lower end, to R780 on the high end. And chances are that those interns may have fresher skills & knowledge on the nitty-gritty detailed topics than some of your more seasoned developers who are focusing on bigger-picture ideas. What can you get in San Francisco for $2,500? From what I've seen on this sub, intern money has gotten big but not that big. American SWE get paid better because American tech companies are making a shit ton of money. They are more restricted in how they hire and what salaries will keep them financially afloat. Another way to look at it is this. The software industry died with open. Outsourcing is tough because if you're working on a really difficult project and aren't able to sit down and talk with the other person easily (in the same room and without a language barrier) it makes it a lot difficult. It is common among engineering students to complain how hard the course is, and that we are all so tired of studying. EDIT: Thank you for the insightful comments. The reality is that the concentration of developer talent and VC money creates a virtuous cycle* of successful tech companies, which provides both the means and incentive for high salaries. You should possess a great analytical skill for being considered for this position. Because of this, we can create very large margins! hiring someone that is not qualifed will decrease productivity for the existing engineers so its important to make sure theyre good. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the cscareerquestions community. The crowdsourced data on levels.fyi shows that software engineers get paid extremely well at companies like Google, Facebook, Amazon, Apple, and Microsoft.. Levels.fyi estimates that a Level 3 … The answer is: they're not. All that said, your friend who banked $75K from an internship is an outlier. Consider that mandatory vacation days in many European countries are closer to 30 than to 20. Dave Smith. I'm gonna get all A's while finishing my bachelor's degree. Press J to jump to the feed. Art by Judson Collier. Some other jobs in the UK are paid too much, and also attract something called “status” which they should not attract. But even with six-figure salaries, many developers are finding it difficult to afford the sky-high rent in the Bay Area. I'm sorry if I come off as a douche but I'm genuinely curious. What annoys myself is how high expectations are for new graduates. Housing is considered affordable at 24-30% of a person's annual income. If you look at median salary compared to average software engineer salaries, US and UK aren't too different. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the cscareerquestions community. Yet there is still high demand for local developers. I'm in environmental engineering and don't earn nearly as much as my friends doing software engineering at my University. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. I think it is just starting to change if you go in the tech/startup world you can make more money ,developers are paid even over $500k, the difference is the culture they value your work. Note: You can find this analysis updated for 2020 here.. Dev fell in love with code at a young age. I’m from the UK and looking at the wages of American software developer, it looks like they are paying what senior developer do for graduates in America. Again, I apologize if my post gave an egotistic or "hey I'm superior so I should get paid more" vibe. There are many more factors at play. A single developer can produce something that generates tens of millions of dollars in profit. * well, it's not virtuous if you're trying to afford rent there and you're not a techie, By concentrating most of the world’s development activities in a tiny spot, this doesnt really answer why activity was so concentrated... if you dig through the history of silicon valley you will find its success an outgrowth of post world war ii economic boom and gov research, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Valley#History_(before_1970s), silicon valley: the birthplace of modern corporate welfare. Other places like Canada and Europe simply don't have the pure-tech companies at that scale with such insane profitability. 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Earning money until 11 to 15 years after high school not every company has some sort web.